Composing trust #4: Cultural relations – a fairer way to engage between continents

Biography:

Phloeun Prim is a cultural entrepreneur, and the Executive Director of Living Arts International (LAI). LAI incubates cultural initiatives that contribute to a peaceful, sustainable future, using the living arts as a catalyst for change. LAI began in Cambodia where Phloeun is based, and is shaped by its identity as a grassroots, post-conflict, non-profit organisation. Phloeun started his career as a co-founder of ‘Artisans d’Angkor’, a Cambodian social enterprise that provides professional skills and opportunities to young Cambodians in rural communities with limited educational opportunities.

In 2009, he became Director of Cambodian Living Arts (CLA), which was the seed for Living Arts International. Today LAI not only continues its work in Cambodia through CLA, but has also established a regional branch, Mekong Cultural Hub, which works across Asia, and a transnational program, Connecting South. Phloeun’s skills and networks enable him to bridge connections and cooperation across grassroots and policy. His imagination and ambition drives him to deliver large scale international projects, from Season of Cambodia Festival in New York City 2013, to LAI’s latest exploration; a project to bring Global South communities into the heart of global efforts to democratise access to cultural heritage through technological innovation.

In recent years, Phloeun has been a visiting Professor at NYU Abu Dhabi, teaching courses on Arts for Transformation, which have now become part of the core curriculum.

Link to LinkedIn profile

Biography:

Samantha Nengomasha is based in Zimbabwe and works for Hivos, an international human rights organisation, that is Dutch-based. Her work includes focusing on issues of democracy, gender equality, diversity and inclusion, as well as also bringing those aspects into climate justice, looking at how local people and how local communities are responding to and reacting to climate change. 

She works in other capacities, doing capacity building, also knowledge management and organisational development, particularly focusing at the role of youth as change makers as well as front runners for them to bring sustainable socioeconomic development in their communities, doing this through industry of arts, media and culture locally in the region of southern Africa. Her work has therefore been advocating for as well as the activity participation for actively participating in the mobilisation of marginalised minority communities helping them become part of the decision making metrics as well as contributing to their local conflict resolutions. It has to be to do with human conflict or to also do with human nature conflict. 

Her educational background is in the social sciences discipline. She holds a bachelor’s degree in sociology as well as a master’s degree in international relations and diplomacy.

Link to LinkedIn profile

Biography:

Levina (Lev) Wirawan is an international arts manager and producer, specialising in artistic collaborations, festivals, and capacity building in the arts. Lev’s worked in the arts for 10 years, operating across multiple art forms – connecting ideas, people, and projects from UK, Indonesia and several South East Asian countries, Japan, and wider Europe. 

She has more than five years’ experience in inclusive arts with a focus on disability arts and is currently expanding her work on arts and environmental sustainability. Her role as Programme Manager (Cultural Engagement/Arts) for British Council included leading and managing more than 30 inclusive arts projects and initiatives, notably the ground-breaking Festival Bebas Batas – Indonesia’s first disability arts festival, involving over 100 artists and welcoming over 20,000 people in 2018.

She also develops and manages residency programmes, brokering new partnerships and co-productions between Indonesia and the UK arts sector. She enjoys yoga, cooking (and eating) plant-based food, and learning about East Asian traditional and popular culture.

Link to Instagram profile

Biography:

Elham Khattab is the Founder and Director of Out Of The Circle Organization, based in Cairo, Egypt, that provides since 2008 arts management and curation support for visual and new media artists. Khattab also produced DIGI MENA: a mapping research project that maps digital artists from the Middle East and North Africa, supported by the Goethe Institute and the German Federal Foreign Office. Since 2018, Out Of The Circle organisation started an arts residency for international new media artists in the heart of Cairo where artists spend time working on their art projects and research.

Her educational background is in the social sciences discipline. She holds a bachelor’s degree in sociology as well as a master’s degree in international relations and diplomacy.

Link to LinkedIn profile

Biography:

Andrea is an engineer, entrepreneur and executive. She is the Cofounder and Managing Director of Kingston Creative an organisation seeking to transform Downtown; the founder of Bookophilia, a bookstore that promotes Caribbean literature; and the founder of Go Global Art, an art marketing platform which helps artists from developing countries gain access to global markets. 

Andrea is a strategic business coach and consultant for creative entrepreneurs. She recently managed the Arts portfolio for the British Council where she developed strategy and implemented key projects in film, literature and visual art to build capacity and drive the creative economy in Jamaica.

Link to LinkedIn profile

Biography:

George Henry Okello Abungu is a Cambridge-trained archaeologist and Emeritus Director-General of the National Museums of Kenya. He is the founding Chairman of Africa 2009, ISCOTIA (International Standing Committee on the Traffic in Illicit Antiquities), and CHDA (Centre for the Heritage Development in Africa).

He has been an advisor to the Aluka project of the Mellon Foundation USA, the Global Heritage Fund USA, Vice President of International Council of Museums (ICOM) Paris, France, a Member of the International Jury of the UNESCO Melina Mecouri International Prize for Safeguard and Management of Cultural Landscapes, and a member of the International Experts of the Humboldt Forum, Berlin, Germany. He has sat on the World Monuments Watch panel of the World Monument Fund, New York and was Kenya’s Representative to the UNESCO World Heritage Committee, and Vice-President of its Bureau (2004-2008).

He is a Fellow of the Stellenbosch Institute for Advanced Studies, University of Stellenbosch South Africa. He is the founding Professor of Heritage Studies, at the University of Mauritius and currently serves as a Special Advisor to the Director General of ICCROM, Rome, Italy. He is also Honorary Professor of Heritage Studies, Australian National University, Canberra, Australia. He is a recipient of multiple distinctions.

Link to LinkedIn profile

Biography:

Lindsay Amini is the Director of Cultural Programs at Meridian International Center, a prestigious non-profit in Washington, DC, brings a proactive and creative approach to the organisation’s Center for Cultural Diplomacy. With over 12 years in international educational exchange and public diplomacy, and Lindsay has deep understanding of cross-cultural dynamics. She leads proposal, exchange, and exhibition development, advancing the organisation’s mission of global understanding through cultural engagement.

Lindsay serves as Program Director of Next Level, a U.S. Department of State initiative sending hip-hop artists abroad for youth inspiration, artistic entrepreneurship, and conflict transformation. Since 2016, she has overseen programme implementation, emphasising arts-driven cultural exchange. Lindsay’s commitment to cultural relations is evident in her participation in the Cultural Relations Platform’s Global Cultural Relations Programme in Athens (2017) and Brussels (2019), enhancing her global perspective.

With a Bachelor of Arts in Art History from Emory University and a Master of Arts in Art History from The George Washington University, Lindsay Amini blends academic foundation with professional experience. Her journey reflects the arts’ power in international understanding, exchange, and transformation.

Damien Helly: You are listening to the Composing trust podcast, by culture Solutions – a series on European cultural action with the world. Is Europe still attractive? How is it perceived by outside the EU? How do Europeans promote culture together in the world, with which partners? What have they learned, what is their experience? Our Composing Trust podcast series will address these issues.

Isabelle Van de Gejuchte: Welcome to the second part of our series focusing on international cultural relations. I’m Isabelle Van de Gejuchte, and together with Alexandre Gil, we are delighted to host this discussion. In the previous episode, our guests shared various understandings of the concept of international cultural relations in different geographical contexts. They’ve also highlighted the importance of an approach that is rooted in an open dialogue through deep listening.

Alexandra Gil: Today we will be looking at the relationship between diverse world regions and the dynamics that have emerged in recent years Between and within the North and the South, the East and the West. Contributors are also providing a series of recommendations based on their professional practices, linked to cherishing and preserving local cultural expressions, promoting intercultural exchanges, and mainstreaming cultural policies. It’s time for our guests to introduce themselves.

Kateryna Kravchuk: My name is Kateryna Kravchuk, I’m a co-founder of Lanka procolective, from Ukraine.

Phloeun Prim: My name is Phloeun. I’m the executive director of Living Arts International. Which is an organisation that came out of 25 years on the ground with Cambodian living arts.

Sam Nengomasha: My full name is Samantha Sakai Masha. I’m based in Zimbabwe. I work in an international human rights organisation.

Levina Wirawan: My name is Lavina Wirawan. I am Chinese, Indonesian born currently working in Jakarta. I am a producer specialising in artistic collaborations, festivals, creative exchanges, I am also arts manager for British Council.

Elham Khattab: I’m Elham Khattab. I’m based in Cairo, Egypt and I’m curator, arts manager and researcher. I’m also the founder of the Circle organisation.

Andrea Dempster: My name is Andrea Dempster Chong, and I’m speaking from Kingston, Jamaica. I’m a structural engineer turned cultural activist. I run an arts non-profit in Kingston called Kingston Creative.

George Abungu: My name is George Ubuntu. I am from Kenya and I’m an archaeologist and a heritage expert. In addition to that, I am Emeritus Director general of the National Museums of Kenya.

Lindsay Amini: I’m Lindsay Amini. I’m The Director of cultural Programmes at Meridian International Centre, a public diplomacy, non-government organisation based in Washington, DC.

Isabelle Van de Gejuchte: After this introduction, let’s dive into our first topic. The North-South linkages and how international cultural relations are a way to rethink this relationship in a more equitable way in the words of Phloeun, Sam, and George.

Phloeun Prim: The relationship starts from a global north perspective where there are funding, capacity, and then they are looking to engage. What I see that is quite new is that the need from a Global South perspective to connect from the other perspective, meaning that they are the one looking or searching for those relationships, those connections, those networks, those know how. And, and the other new layer is that there’s a narrative that is emerging from a global south perspective. What had emerged is also the need from kind of a global south perspective to connect with global north, uh, in their own way.

But now there’s a third layer for me that I see is like within the global south. There is, there is this need or there is this interest or curiosity to see, uh, how, uh, other practitioner within the Global South are operating, are doing, are thinking, are dreaming about.So that’s something that I’ve seen over the last five-ten years kind of this evolution.

Sam Nengomasha: If you look at the most widely spoken languages or even the official world languages, none of those are African. We are talking about English, we are talking French, Portuguese in some cases, even the Chinese Mandarin is coming up, which we would like to use an example that it is possible to incorporate other languages as a medium. Of cultural relations so that there is inclusion. Most artists are able to express themselves and most actors in their local languages.

So there’s more inclusion and more recognition for diversity and our different cultural identities when we approach it from that angle. The different cultural identities matters, the diverse languages matter, and the equitable distribution of opportunities and of risks is it’s all important so that cultural relations are relevant and they continue. So yeah, I think let’s resist the homogenisation of cultures.

George Abungu: The relations between Europe and particularly the South has been this relation of inequality in terms of what they see as contribution. Everything is measured in terms of financial resources. And not in terms of goodwill and other things that usually the South brings. And I think this is what we are trying to say, that it is not always the financial support that should be a priority or should be the main thing, but even the goodwill from the South and the experiences and the opportunities to be able to carry out research and work with people and develop relationships and partnerships. That should also be part of this collective responsibility that we should have. In Africa, we really value what we call the indigenous or traditional knowledge systems, because we have always managed our resources and our heritage and cultures through that. And this is an area that we would like to promote.

The relation between Europe and particularly South Africa is still grounded on the colonial relationship for patronage. And I think in creating more or less a global understanding of cultural issues or cultural things, we will start to decolonise that language in which we communicate. We’ll start to decolonize some of the issues and some of these historically skewed relationships. And so for me, I think that is important because it, this, this is a platform that gives us a voice to be able to say what we want to say. And to be able to change the world and to be able to change mindsets, even within institutions. Because when we are co creating, we are co researching, we are co exhibiting, we think the same.

Alexandra Gil: Administrative procedures might also be part of what George just defined as colonial patronage, some of them deeply affecting professional recognition and mobility among cultural practitioners. Elham from Egypt and Andrea from Jamaica further highlight the effects of these inequalities and how they are perceived by the persons concerned.

Elham Khattab: I feel sometimes that the European Union also look to us at the third world countries. And not about what qualification we have. And this also reflected in the visa procedures, in the funding opportunities, in the mobility, in the law or policies that they put between European Union and between other countries.

Andrea Dempster: People from other places have difficulty moving to places. I’ve been to international conferences where, you know, the people who are invited, half of them can’t attend because of the visa regime in that country. This was not thought through. These are experts in their own right, but they have to go through some lengthy expensive process and end up missing the conference. This is because if you happen to hold a passport that is higher up on the list, you may not be thinking about the passport that is lower down on the list.

Isabelle Van de Gejuchte: Despite restrictions to people’s mobility, Jamaica serves as a compelling example of how a country can wield significant global cultural influence.

Andrea Dempster: You have reggae, of course, which is a global phenomenon. I go to France, to Marseille, I hear a reggae group performing in French. UK has had a massive influence from Jamaica. Music ska we’ve created eight genres of music. And I think, you know, it’s really influenced new genres, reggaeton in South America. And so music is a huge example of a very natural progression. This was not designed by a government designed by organizations. It was barely facilitated, but it has had a huge impact now, you know, in dance. Um, there is a genre called dance hall, that’s a music, but it’s also a type of dance, a form of dance.

And Japan has been, um, absolutely absorbing this dance hall culture and our dance culture. If you know Jamaican choreography and the different dances that come out, you will be able to identify it in a lot of the American music videos that you see. In terms of language, Jamaican slang is now UK slang. You sit on the bus in the UK and I’m hearing Jamaican words. These are Jamaican words used in Jamaica, and it’s sometimes quite jarring to realize how much of the culture is brought with people through, you know, migration. And we have to say, you know, colonisation as well, you know, and all of these structures that were built. But it’s a way of transmission of the culture in a natural and organic way.

Alexandra Gil: Moving to the next stage of our conversation, we asked colleagues to provide recommendations on how international cultural relations can strengthen the linkages between different parts of society, and play a role in the way northern southern countries engage with each other.

Isabelle Van de Gejuchte: Talking about culture, often considered as a separate branch of the economy, Phloeun and Kateryna advise to take a transversal approach in order for creatives to tackle challenges along the other sectors of society.

Phloeun Prim: We should not think about the cultural sector in isolation, because it’s often seen that way. In fact, I think this is the big mistake that Cultural worker cultural practitioner do it’s only see themselves within kind of a whole sector. And it’s how we connect with with global issue, either like, uh, with sustainability, environmental issue, uh, innovation and technology, even democracy and human right things, you know. I also seen from our own cultural perspective is that the cultural worker or artists are often seen as on the sideline and not part of the civil society in the same way that we can see other actor being seen.

As long as we only see the cultural worker, the artists being kind of on the sideline. We never engage them properly in the right way. But if we see in fact culture as kind of cross-cutting through all the different thematic sector that we are engaging, I think we will find and identify better way to engage in that end.

Kateryna Kravchuk: It’s important to realise that culture is any more separated from other domains of human development, like economics, like, like climate change, like social cohesion. So we cannot speak about international cultural relations as something separate. It’s always in the context of the development.

And it is very important for cultural operators from all countries to speak one voice. About the role of culture in the development in general. So when you design the economic policy, you have to consider the culture. When you design regional development, whatever policy, uh, you have to consider the culture and we all, all of us working international cultural relations, have to support each other in this, and we have to create the case for this to the policy makers all over the world.

Alexandra Gil: Supporting local initiatives has also been mentioned on several occasions during our discussion. Phloeun is particularly vocal on this, so we asked him what has he learned through the years from grassroots organisations in Cambodia.

Phloeun Prim: A lot of these local initiatives don’t necessarily need the millions euro, you know, uh, and they need more micro. Medium sized funding and engagement. And I know it’s harder from an EU perspective, but I think there are probably intermediary that you can engage to work with local grassroot initiative because something also that we have seen recently is in fact, in Asia, in Southeast Asia, we don’t have that many big cultural institutions, but a lot of grassroots.

What’s interesting that we have observed through the pandemic is the resilient of the grassroot organization have been much stronger than the bigger, larger institutions. And they are the one that are continuing to do the work that is is happening now, but somehow their schematic of funding is very different.

Often, they cannot rely on state funding, so they have to be creative in their own mind. And so I think these grassroots groups. Um, for you than than necessarily all these kind of big institutions. Now, what I’m suggesting to these donors to say, well, maybe we should work with with intermediary like us that can can help transition those funding, but also, Make sure that we follow all your procedure and your guidelines. So we ourselves build our own capacity to match the need of this funder, but also at the same time understanding the reality of, of our grassroots.

Isabelle Van de Gejuchte: Conversations with all our speakers highlighted another key point. The request for change in policies, Elham, Lindsay, Andrea, and George offer diverse reasons and suggestions for potential shifts.

Elham Khattab: I think the most important is as as human we should be learning and sharing experience from each other and not take it in superior level as I mentioned before. This is the most important and this should be in the policies between like European Union and other countries. And it also should be like more about looking to the professional background and how qualified this person is. And this also should be reflected in, in all the policies. I believe an international culture recommendation, for example, is the mobility. Artists and culture managers should have a visa for artists for like more physical exchange and promoting for peace. It should be easy procedures for the exchange between the two continents.

Lindsay Amini: I think for the EU and also for the U. S., it’s very crucial to encourage kind of deep listening from the local community, and I know I keep harping on this but, you know, I think it is crucial to encourage deep listening on the needs and understanding that there is a potential for an inherent power imbalance, whether that’s politically or it’s because, you know, the EU or the US controls the funding for the program. For the EU approach, it really needs to be. Deep listening, even if those conversations might be uncomfortable and potentially don’t align with the EU strategy and that given country. My first and foremost recommendation for the EU is to keep investing in ICR, both with adequate funding as well as human resources.

Because really in order for this to be successful, um, there must not only be the financial resources, which is often a constant challenge in this field, but there also needs to be the staff on the ground that can effectively implement them. The ICR initiatives that incorporate a diverse group of stakeholders, I think that can also really help ensure that there is a bottom up approach to ICR.

Are stepping outside the usual partners to help reach communities on the margins, that’s when you can really foster a space for trust and shared responsibility. And so this would include having artists or smaller cultural organizations that have those deep ties with their community members to again, just establish those community-driven initiatives. And I really think that this method helps move the conversation beyond academics and policies and gives the arts and culture community the opportunities to address those power imbalances both at home and abroad.

Andrea Dempster: EU-to-EU must be a different approach from EU-to-the-world. Otherwise there’s just an inherent assumption that one size fits all and it clearly doesn’t.

George Abungu: I think for me it’s critical that, uh, the EU, and not only EU, all the other organizations should also chip in to make the international cultural relations, or bodies like that, be much more effective and much more proactive. In their work in bringing harmony in society and promoting what is good, including some of these downtrodden artists and artistic creations.

Alexandra Gil: Our experts contributions have placed international cultural relations in a global perspective. George, Andrea, and Sam’s concluding remarks build upon the importance of sustaining dialogue, even if, at a certain point, it might get uncomfortable.

George Abungu: Cultural relations is absolutely critical for the world. And I think that I would urge it to sort of develop beyond Europe and to be much more inclusive and listen to the voices as recommended and slowly focus development. That will encompass all these different voices and a global platform. I think that is the only way that it will be able to survive and truly be appreciated.

Andrea Dempster: Definitely, I would say, the engagement in cultural relations is really valuable, should be invested in, but in a way that takes into account the various biases, the different locations and the dynamics that exist in these locations. I think that’s very important. If there’s a recognition of the systems that already exist and a willingness to be uncomfortable, you know, because it will require some discomfort to talk about some of these things. Um, but if there’s a willingness to and an openness to that, then I think we’ll absolutely get there.

Sam Nengomasha: Both you, Isabelle and Alexandra, I really love that you’re taking this initiative and the lead. More discussions like this should be had. And that’s why cultural relations is important because you feel by yourself, you’re going to need others. You can perform your poetry, but you’re going to need audiences. So that’s why this is important because brings people together and there’s that sharing. So my recommendation is continue to do the work that you’re doing. Let this conversation be heard as many times in as many languages, in as many platforms, and let they also be discussed outside of your presence, because once I have the discussion with you, I’m having it with the, with the community I represent, they’re also going to speak about it and they’re going to act on it.

Isabelle Van de Gejuchte: Alexandra, our experts have enriched our understanding of the concept of international cultural relations and have made insightful suggestions on how Europe should engage in a fairer way with the other continents.

Alexandra Gil: Yes, Isabel, they’ve also raised common issues of concern and recommendations regarding integrating culture and international cultural relations into policies and cooperation programmes. Exploring a global structure and funding mechanism for international cultural relations in times of turbulence could help broaden perspectives, foster trust and understanding.

Isabelle Van de Gejuchte:  Thank you for listening to the podcast. We hope you have enjoyed the conversation. Please share your thoughts and suggestions with us in order to keep the discussion going.

Damien Helly: Thank you for listening to today’s episode of our Composing trust podcast by culture Solutions! If you liked it, you can subscribe and follow us on your favourite podcast platforms, and contact us at culturesolutions.eu.